(no subject)

[hot_foot_steph]

I am so confused. SO confused.

I just read the first chapter in my Intro to Psychology book. It was titled "What makes psychology a science?" And I'm just confused I guess. I'm confused on who God is.

Dammit, I'm just...so CONFUSED. I cannot settle down and relax when I feel as though my very beliefs and salvation are in jeopardy.

Who's right, dude?

Why did God give us a brain?

What is truth? Seriously. What is the definition of truth and how can ANYTHING really be truth if skeptics question facts as well? 'Cause if they question facts, they have to question science. What is science? Our journey to the mind of God? So why does it lead some people away from God? Why did the people of Paleolithic, etc. times have the instinct of there being a higher power? How come now, people who don't believe there is a God deny it?

Is it WRONG to believe in God blindly? Is it WRONG to close the mind off to all these swirling psychological thoughts and just be like "I BELIEVE AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!"? Is it BAD to be ignorant by choice? 'Cause that's what I'm doing right now. No, I'm not being ignorant...I'm just scared to learn. Shows how much freaking faith STEPHANIE has. "I'm too scared that the more I learn the more my faith will be discredited within me." How freaking messed UP is that? I'm AFRAID of learning. I want to learn, but I'm afraid of it. What does this tell you?

Am I a blind believer? If I'm blind, does that REALLY make me a believer? What IS a believer? How much faith is enough? Is salvation REALLY ultimately God's choice or not?

If every human can have different opinions shaped by their experiences, who brings about experiences? Experiences aren't in the head. So psychology HAS to connect with SOME sort of "outside force." Maybe?

I am going, literally, insane. I can't relax to save my life. If I'm not secure that I am going to be in Heaven with Jesus (who I struggle with so much unbelief in, dammit), I canNOT relax no matter WHAT you tell me. People who are experts in knowing how to cope with stress and crap like that...they WON'T be able to help me if this is my primary concern. 'Cause what CAN help you unless someone convinces you you're saved? And who can do that? Who but God can convince you? And what if he doesn't seem to be doing that at the time? How am I supposed to KNOW there is a God? How am I supposed to KNOW I am saved? How...do...I...KNOW? And what if there's a different god up there?

Do I believe blindly? Partially, yes.

Dude, I suck.

Nothing can calm me down right now. Except for maybe other people. Perhaps I should go...find somebody. I'm in my dorm room alone.

This SUCKS dude. I HATE life if I am not convinced of an afterlife with the God of the Bible. So either this means He DOES exist for why ELSE would I be like this, or that I have been brainwashed.

Which...is...it?

Comments

[lauraaudrey.livejournal.com]

Steph - you do not suck, dear. That very thought crosses my mind every Sunday as I'm sitting in Sunday School. Is it WRONG to not truly know why you believe what you believe? And it makes me feel almost guilty that I'm having those thoughts. I'm sorry, I don't have any wise words or wise solutions for you, but I just pray about it, talk about it and read my bible and try to understand was much as possible...

But the moral of the story is, you do not suck =) They're totally normal thoughts.

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Laura.

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

I miss our religion debates, Steph!

I dont have much time to really say what it adequate on this topic, but here's my quick 2 cents on religon as of late:

- if G-d wanted humans to believe Him to be a certain way, I really think he'd have enough control to make us all see Him that way.

Hence, I think G-d wants us to believe in Him as we wish. He wanted a diverse people, who made us intelligent enough to learn how the things He created work. Hence, Science is how I personally believe G-d created everything, and how it all works. Science isnt 100 percent because we havent completely learned it all yet, and as humans, we are imperfect.

In my view, I dont think that G-d cares how we worship Him-- I think He cares more how we treat our fellow humans. Every religion, at its core, is about love. Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam-- its about peace and love. The human perversion of each religion turns it to something else. Which is why I think organized religion, for the most part, is completely opposite of what G-d intended.

I think its wonderful that you struggle with your beliefs, Steph. I struggle about my faith a lot. Some days I don't believe in G-d. Other days I wonder how I doubt Him. My philosophy is that I wont KNOW until I die. So I am not going to focus on it now.

Then again, my religion doesnt have that whole salvation/hell aspect, so its probably a lot more stressful for you.

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

See...my thoughts on that are this: It doesn't make sense to me why a God of love would sit back and let people believe what they want. If that were so, then where IS organization going to come to play? And I'm not necessarily talking about organized RELIGION, I'm talking about organization PERIOD. I mean, what's morally wrong and what's morally right? Do morals EXIST? To me, if there's a God (which I believe there is), He would inspire a book about him so people could have a personal relationship with him. If a god does not interact with His people, then how can we find ultimate comfort? I really have no interest, personally, in a god who will isn't personal and who won't let me try and figure him out. 'Cause if all those religions are fine with him, then all of us have contradictory views on God. And if *I* was God, I wouldn't want people mistaking who I was. 'Cause I KNOW who I am. So why would I, if I was God, want to confuse people? That's why I don't believe that all religions are fine with God and are just a human's way to get to God. You know? I like the idea MUCH better that God would come to US. THAT shows he loves us. To me, the other way around, doesn't seem logical if we are defining love. The very fact, to me, that the God I believe in IS personal means that He GAVE us some aspects of him! The very word "personal" comes from "person" so the fact that God is interested in all of our affairs and cares enough about us to NOT let us have the wrong idea about him ('cause logically, wouldn't it be right to assume that God knows he is not BOTH what Hindus and Christians believe? This makes me think that in order to show us HIMSELF in a way WE can understand (which I think is WHY we have not fully discovered all aspects of science), He'd HAVE to get personal. And that, *I* believe, is love. It's almost God's way of PROVING that He is how we love other humans. 'Cause he will almost take the role of a human (a much, higher human...like, God-human, who is not REALLY a human...gah! you know what I'm getting at I trust ;) ) to show us what love really is.

WOW that was long. I'm sorry you had to read that much!

I miss you, Rissa. I miss our religion/what have you debates as well. I DO hope you are doing well and I will ALWAYS remember you. I'm dead serious. :)

Thank you for the comment. :)

Love love love,
Stephanie

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

ah me. don't tell me you kids are going to start all this up again. ;)

*waves* hiya rissa. this is carroll/gcbchicks if you remember me.

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

Hey Carroll!!!

*adds you*

:)

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

aw yay. :) i added you back.

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

See, I have a completely different view of G-d than you do. To me, letting people have their own belief of G-d IS wayyyy more personal than a cookie cutter image, that He comes to you and has to prove himself-- I dont see Him that way at all. G-d is a personal belief, and every person sees Him differently- even if they worship Him the same way. And thats what makes Him special, I think. I dont see anything wrong with people having contradictory views of G-d. Its not that I think people have the WRONG idea, its that people make G-d into whatever they want, and He lets them. I cant otherwise explain the numerous different religions, which have much in common at the core, but have grown very different.

I am doing well :) And enjoy college! It will be what you make of it- dont sweat the small stuff, and don't let anyone drag you down!

<3
Rissa

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

I see where you're coming from, and this observation is by NO means trying to step on your toes Rissa, but I thought contradictions were a BIG thing in your book? Not only with the Bible's supposed contradictions, but with scientific contradictions as well? There can't be any scientific contradictions, can there? So why would God let us contradict Him but not the world He made by science?

Love,
Stephanie

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between scientific contradictions and religious contradictions. Science is real, the here and now, what you can see, and feel, and taste.

Religion is an experience. I dont view it as "real" I cant really explain my belief system, and its totally my own, not from any sort of a group, or Jewish beliefs, since most Jews would disagree with me on this also. But, I view G-d as something personal to me, and He is not the same for everyone. It isnt a contradiction. I know its irational, but religion in general is extremely irrational to me. The only way *I* can reconcile my secular belief system with a god is to view Him this way.

And you forgot that I dont believe a word of the Bible as literal truth, Old Testament or New... :) It doesnt matter if something I dont believe is truth anyways has contradictions....

I do believe that when our technology increases, we'll have more answers. We know things today that we had no clue existed even 5 years ago.

Rissa :)

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...but if you're creating a God to suit you, you can pretty much make Him be whatever you want, and its a lot easier to justify your own means in that sense. We need One who is definitive in His own right, not what we create Him to be - becos the Created cannot make the Creator in their image, we are made in His, by Him, not He by us. That's what I believe.

Love,
Stephanie

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

I dont see anything wrong with creating a god to suit you. G-d created the earth, created us, and let us have the free will to believe what we want. He DID, didnt he? I refuse to beleive there is one correct way to worship G-d. Why didnt he tell us, unambigiously, so that NO ONE has ANY doubts, if thats what He inteded? In something a little more accurate than a man written Bible...

But sometimes I DO believe WE made G-d.... its something I struggle with when I'm in my G-d doubting phase... what were people believing 10,000 years ago, although the earth was "created" about 6,000 or so... (according to the Bible, which I dont believe)... people existed before religion did. That I know you dont agree with, but I subscribe to an evolutionary theory that does contradict with the Bible in that respect-- Adam and Eve doesnt fly with me.

Further, I separate morality from religion, which I know is hard for Christians to understand. I dont judge what I do based on whether I think G-d would want me to or not-- I do things based on how I was raised, what would make my family proud, and what is acceptable to myself. G-d plays no role in my morality (or what you might think lack thereof... I am quite liberal...)

I dont think there is one way to act, the way that "G-d" intended. I dont WANT a definitive G-d. I certainly dont want to believe in the Christian version of G-d... I rather dispise judgment, and living for an afterlife. And if that version IS in fact correct, then I'm going to Hell no matter what I do, so there's no point in me worrying about it now. Like I've said before, if I have to pretend to believe something I don't for an afterlife I dont know exists, then whats the point of having a life now?

But I cant go to Hell if it doesn't exist...

Rissa

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

1.) There IS no correct way to "worship." I believe there's a correct way to BELIEVE, but Rissa...you have GOT to understand this. If God gave us personalities, then certainly we all don't have to WORSHIP Him the same way. The idea is that we're worshiping him. Believing in him is not the same thing as worshiping.
2.) Don't believe everything you read. I know you're probably like "WHAT?! But YOU do!" No, I don't. The Bible's theory on when the earth was created WASN'T 6,000 years ago. I don't know where the HELL you got that... Seriously. I have this idea that you don't read the Bible...that you merely hear what others SAY about it (regardless of HOW "doctor-ish" and "learned" they are) and believe it just because you're alREADY biased against the Bible. Books ARE biased, Rissa. ALL of them. Christian and non. They are ALL BIASED. And you can say I don't read YOURbooks but you don't read MINE either.
3.) God is NOT NOT NOT "religion." God created morals in us, not effing "religion" because "religion" is human-made.
3.) God will exist whether you believe it or not. I know that sounds dumb and obvious...but seriously. It's a good point. You can't go to Hell if it doesn't exist, but you can if it does. What good does THAT argument do?
4.) You're going to hate me for this one, but you know NOTHING about the Christian God, Rissa. You can't find things out from people who AREN'T Christians about the Christian God. Seriously. Not that all CHRISTIANS know what they're talking about...but honestly. You really have no clue. I can tell you have no clue. And maybe I have no clue about what YOU'RE talking about. I accept that maybe that's true. But seriously. You want to know what the Christian God is like? You will HAVE to delve MUCH deeper than this...

-Stephanie

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

couple of quick things before I read your other post and respond to that...

- worship is an outward act of your beliefs. But I dont think there is one way to worship or one way to believe. This is something we are just going to disagree on. And I have read the Old Testament, and there's no point in reading the New Testament. Ive said before on the boards why I dont believe in the Bible and I dont have time to go into it here.

- the Jewish calendar is 5760-something (i dont remember the exact year)- hence, the Judeo-Christian belief is that G-d created the earth that many years ago.

- I dont know why you think I believe everything I read, Im exactly the opposite. I doubt everything I read.

- I agree religion is human made. But so are the beliefs, regardless of religion.

Rissa-- let me read more...

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

just to throw in two only semi-related things..

1) in relation to believing in God, c.s. lewis proposed an interesting idea. in the new testament, Jesus says "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. no one comes to the Father but through me." (no i'm not going to give a reference and no i wouldn't swear that's a perfect quote..hehe) this basically states that the ONLY way you can be saved is through Jesus. it's just not gonna happen any other way. however, it never states that this way is faith specifically in Christ. in all actuality, you could say that it's limiting Jesus if you say that only those who believe IN HIM can go to heaven. granted, believing specifically against Christ (regardless of religion or knowledge of Christianity) would probably speak ill of your condition, but with this thought pattern, who's to say that the devout old man of some ancient African religion isn't just as saved as sally sue who goes to such and such baptist church and goes to Bible study three times a week. i'm not too sure how i feel about this, but i think it's pretty interesting.

2) in regards to evolution...you've probably heard it said before, but ah well. yes, according to the Bible the earth wouldn't be very old. however, if you were to believe the account of Creation, you could still argue that God created the earth with the appearance of age. think about it..Adam and Eve weren't children, according to the Bible. trees weren't little tiny saplings. everything was full grown, so why not the earth itself also?

that's my two cents! now you kids can have fun and please don't kill each other as i like you both. ;)

[rissainthesky.livejournal.com]

the earth was not put here fully grown, there is scientific proof (whether you want to believe it or not) that uses many methods, and the conclusion is that the earth is millions of years old. I am not a science teacher and havent taken the classes in a few years, but in ALL science classes I have taken, its fact that the earth is NOT only 6,000 years old-- we have fossils way older than that.

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

yeah but rissa, if God created a "fully grown" earth, then it would be an earth with the appearance of age, just as adam and eve had age. there would be fossils. i'm not discounting scientific method in calculating the age of fossils (and etc), simply saying that the things they're dating were possibly put there in creation.

i'm not asking you to believe that, but there is logic to it. logic which requires belief in a Creator, yes, but..*shrugs*. whatever. :)

[peacefulmisery.livejournal.com]

Also, there are like, four different interpretations on how God inspired the Bible:

Dictation - word for word
Natural - basically none
Dynamic - God uses the specific personalities, weaknesses, strengths, and ignorances of certain writers to write what He wants. (this is the one I believe, personally)
General

(and there's a few others...I can't remember...I just learned this today in my Old Testament class)

But yeah. To be a Christian doesn't mean you have to believe the Bible was literally WORD FOR WORD inspired by God. *shrug*

Although I DO believe it was, overall. But who's to say God WANTED everything to be, well, "perfect" in HIS sense? Honestly. IT's something to think about. IT doesn't mean the Bible isn't true... *Shrug*

By the way...I reread what I posted in reply to your last comment...I want to apologize. I came off as possibly hostile and crabby. And insecure, even. I'm sorry, Rissa. I really am. Oh and...heh...maybe the Bible DOES say (or, rather, Christian scientists who have deduced an age based on the history of the Bible say) the age of the world is 6,000. (Though Carroll just said it's more towards 8,000 to 12,000...heh...I haven't studied this yet) I'm sorry I acted all "WHAT?!" to that. I feel about thisbig right now and I apologize for trying to make it seem like I knew what I was talking about when I really didn't. That is, on that particular aspect.

But I'm really liking what Carroll said...about God created the world with the APPEARANCE of those years. Yeah. That's honestly a very very good point. To me, at least.

Heh.

Okay. I think I need to stop talking now. ;)

-Stephanie

an old age earth....

[(Anonymous)]

On the idea that the world is 6,000 yers old...or even 12,000....
Christian scientists read and studied the Bible and deduced the "age" of the Earth without considering one factor: The Bible says nothing on the amount of time that Adam and Eve spent in the Garden of Eden. It is most likely that millions of years passed in time on the earth outside the Garden, while the Garden itself and its occupants remained untouched by the passage of time due to the fact that they were a constant in the presence of God. Once Adam and Eve sinned and were removed from that presence, they were cast out and became part of an already populated world.

hold on now..

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

granted, there's no way to be sure how long they were in the garden, nor how long they could potentially live as pefect humans.

however, at the moment that's not what interests me. "an already populated world"? where would this population come from? you are talking about human beings, correct?

also, just curious, who are you?

A mystery left unsolved...

[(Anonymous)]

When Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden, it does seem they entered into an already populated world. Now where would this population come from? While there is no definitive answer, we can't assume that God simply stopped creating humans after Adam and Eve. It is likely - and I know I am traversing into theory here - that God created Adam and Eve as the first humans and wanted to keep them close to Him becos of that, then went on creating and populating the world. Now does this mean He was not gonna bring those he created outside of the Garden to Him? Not necessarily, those are things we cannot know becos whatever those intentions were were lost when Adam and Eve sinned.
Alot of this, okay most of this, is just theory I have been working on while reading the Bible myself and trying to make sense of it all. It is likely that God went on creating after Adam and Eve and populated the world thus, then Adam and Eve were made part of it upon banishment from Eden. I have no scripture to back this up, no educated writings to support this argument, this is merely something I am working on myself.
An English professor once told me of a theory on where all the water for the Flood came from: there was like a second atmosphere above the Earth and on top of this, a massive ocean covering the world. (Genesis: "created a firmament in the heavens"? maybe?) This would've created a highly oxygenated enviroment, thus granting long life to creatures that populated the world below; perhpas why human lifespans seemed to shorten so much after the Flood, while they were much longer beforehand. When the time for the Flood came, God simply pricked a hole in that second atmosphere (metaphorically speaking) and it all rained down and washed away.
Again, not necessarily truth, but a theory that could helkp explain a lot.

Well, I'm done....

By the way...this is Jared.

Re: A mystery left unsolved...

[goodeveningsun.livejournal.com]

oh okay, hiya jared. i figured it was you but wasn't dead positive.

that's an interesting theory. however, if God made Adam and said "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him", if He was going to continue creating humans after Adam, then why bother with Eve that special way?

hmmm. that's all i got for the moment. i always have to laugh at myself when i get into debates and discussion and whatnot, because normally i don't like to particularly...but i do it anyway. haha